The Green Room #22 - Development isn't just courses - Transcription

Terry: So welcome to the instructor Podcast Green Room Edition. This is the podcast where we look at all the latest news in the industry and look at some industry related topics. And we do have some news, not massive, but there's a little bit to dig into and we're also going to be digging into the topic of CPD, what it is, should we be doing it, and all that kind of malarkey.

This is the 22nd episode of The Green Room and you'll be delighted to hear it isn't just me. I am joined by two splendid cohorts today. I am joined by show regular Chris Benstead. How are we doing, Chris?

Chris: Always good here.

Terry: And Chris is a representative of and the founder of the DITC. And I am also joined by Richard Borges of Intelligent Instructor. How are you doing, Richard?

Richard: Very good. All as well here as well.

Terry: Excellent. So, you do not have to listen to me waffle on because you'll get two very insightful opinions. Let's go into the news first. And the thing I'm going to mention first is the fact that the DVSA are indeed listening from the last episode of The Green Room, which was the one where we covered the DVSA essentially and ‘Are You Ready To Pass?’ campaign. They have gotten in touch, and they did like what we spoke about on the episode and they have since gone and made changes to their campaign to reflect what we've spoken about.

So, gentlemen, we do need to be a little bit careful what we say today, because people are listening. Chris, what are your thoughts on, first of all, the fact that the DVSA are listening to this podcast?

Chris: Well, I'm hoping they listened to all of the bits, not just when we were nasty about them, but no, it's brilliant. And it does show that they're doing what we've always asked. We can't really complain, can we, if they're listening and making changes based on it. And they were pretty hot out the blocks as well. It was hot off the press and they already got back to us. So, yeah, a lovely email we both received. And it's great that they are continuing to engage with the methods that we are using to communicate. I'm sure that they are reading The Intelligent Instructor as well and that they're using all of these things to see what's going on on the front line. And I was a bit concerned because there were a number of big names that had moved onto other pastures or retired, at least officially, but we were losing some of that communication structure. So it's great that there are people in place that are still listening to us waffle on.

Terry: Yeah. And I think it's important that we just continue to make sure that we're being tactful, we're not using any foul language. But yeah, I think it's great that not necessarily just this podcast. But as you said, whether they're taking on board being told to Instruct. Whether the listens are DIAPOD or whatever. And they're taking action where they can because they can't just click their fingers and match it up 10,000 examiners or half the waiting list or anything like that. But they can go and make changes to the website based on what instructors have said. So yeah, I'm going to throw this over to you, Richard. I'd actually like your opinion on that, on whether the Intelligent Instructor has had any communication with the DVSA, how you found them. I know that you've had members come into the expo and stuff like that in the past.

Richard: Yeah, I think it's been a really nice developing relationship, actually. And as you touched on Terry a few years ago, we first got in touch with them about our first expo back in 2018. I think time flies, God, doesn't it? But we had them come along and talk, which was great that's John Sheridan at the time and things have really developed with them and we're starting to get more and more communication channels open with them. And actually the Ready to Pass campaign, we actually had a briefing from them over a zoom session probably about two or three weeks before it came out and they explained to us what the campaign was. They're very keen to make sure that instructors took it in the right way. I think there is much more awareness of how the instructor market would take this messaging.

So for example, saying stuff like the pass rates have dropped, et cetera, et cetera, they knew what would come back. They knew that they'd done their research in terms of they knew that instructors would think that this is a finger pointing blame game, et cetera. And part of this campaign, they were very, very keen to make sure that that wasn't the case and they were very sort of upfront about that. And actually, I think even just acknowledging the fact that there's been maybe a little bit of a breakdown of communication between the DVSA and the instructor group, that in itself is a huge thing for someone or a big government organization to actually say and admit. I think that's the first step towards opening these communication channels and making things better. Very much what Chris said, the fact they're listening and not only listening, but they've taken action so quickly as well, it's a real positive sight.

Terry: Yeah, I think it's awesome. I mean, just coming on to the Intelligent Instructor for a second and we'll speak about this maybe a bit more depth further down the line. But I love what you guys put out because the communication from Intelligent Instructor I think is excellent. The emails that you guys send out, it covers everything relating to our industry. It's not just like really specific stuff, it's like, this may impact us and this may impact us. So I think it's great that the DVSA coming to you because you've got your finger on the pulse of instructors as well, but they're coming back to you. Chris, just with the ‘Are You Ready’ campaign, were you happy with the changes they made?

Chris: Yeah, I think so. The issue we've said so many times isn't what they do and it's not necessarily how they do it, it's how it's communicated. The communication is where it falls short historically and you can't get it right because. As Richard said, they know how certain triggers are going to be responded to. That it's going to be about finger pointing. That it's going to be about the pass rate. And that's not our fault. All of those things. Because we could have written it. But actually where that needs to be dealt with is about communication and find they can't do everything upfront. But they've tried, but they've responded it very quickly to the things and clarified them and amended them and made the wording better.

So if we can get really good communication with DVSA, two way communication, how is that not going to benefit any of us? It's got to be useful. I liked what they said, I like the way that they said it and the fact that they were keen to keep the communication open. And I just hope that they're engaging with as many different bits of the industry, because going back to when NASP was formed, and that was a rocky road for those that can remember it, it felt like we don't want to talk to all instructors, we want one point of communication so that we can say that we're doing it and that will be our offering. And it feels like they've got a little bit the other way. To go all right, well, we will engage with NASP as strongly as we can and on lots of levels. We'll also have our ears open to the other sides of the industry and the other areas which they might not have done previously. So I think it's going to be a good thing.

Terry: Yeah, I think that's actually worth mentioning and highlighting that relationship with NASP, because that is their go to. As much as they might listen to this podcast and contact yourself, Richard, and intelligent instructor NASP has to be their focal point. That's what they're there for. Going back to season three when I had the three guys on there. Carly, Peter and Lynn from ADINJC, DIA and MSA. That's one of the things they highlighted is a lot of the stuff that they speak about with the DVSA. They can't talk about. And a lot of the stuff that they go batting for,they might win. But it's not something they can necessarily promote. And I always think, imagine some of the stuff we would be getting as instructors if NASP weren't there to fight for us. I think a lot of the stuff that goes on, maybe we don't see. So I do think it's important to mention NASP there.

But, yeah, I think the communication has improved massively, but I don't want to dwell on that too much because we have spoke about the Are You Ready campaign and DVSA quite a bit recently. So I think we might mention later, but maybe put them to the side for now, because there are a couple of a little bit of news that I know you wanted to mention. Chris. I think the first one was around the price of tests. I think there was a comment recently around the price of tests.

Chris: There was an article, I believe it was BBC, and it was the local head. I think it was in the southwest of the MSA who had said that, probably amongst a number of other things he'd said. But what the report focused on was that they should be doubling the price of a driving test in order to put people off not turning up, make it less disposable and maybe get people to think, Am I ready? And to be taking it more seriously, if you like, make it less of, I'll give it a go by doing the costing. I think we've all seen that if anyone's done a vocational qualification or the Adi test, they ain't cheap and I think that's a good thing. And therefore people do look at them and they want to make sure that they're ready and they might take training, whereas they might have given it a go otherwise. So I think there's evidence to support that. We, the DITC, got contacted by a couple of people that were asking it was in conversation, but they were saying, is this MSA's approach to the information they're giving via NASP to the DVSA? Is this the recommendations that they were putting forward? So what I hate is all of the hearsay and stuff, which, again, is why it's nice having the DVSA actually answering questions so it prevents the hearsay.

So I went straight to the horse's mouth and got in touch with Peter Harvey, who's always happy to have a chat and advise. He dug into it a little bit and said that actually they had quite a lot of support for the idea coming from MSA members. And it was part of a bigger conversation. And I know as well as anyone that when you talk to the press, you have to be a little bit ready for whatever comes out of it, because what you said or meant isn't necessarily what comes across in print, but it was definitely an option, but it wasn't a specific idea that was being pushed forward, it was an individual's opinion, not that it was without support. So I think thank you to Peter for coming back to me on that one and for clarifying it. And well done to Arthur, who was the guy who spoke to the BBC, because the more we can talk to the mainstream press and keep our case out there for the ongoing suffering we're all having, both ourselves and our pupils, all the better, you know, it's important that we do that. So, yeah, well done to them and it was really appreciated that they came back and just clarified that.

Terry: Definitely. I do have some sympathy for Arthur, though, when you think of his students who are going to read in that he said that test process should be doubled. I bet he got a bit of stick from them guys. But I'm going to ask you, Richard, actually, as someone that's not a driving instructor, should the driving test price be doubled?

Richard: I'd like to see some research on it and I think what Chris said makes a lot of sense. Just listening to it for the first time. I think one thing that I've sort of noticed just in my history in the industry, 15 years, obviously, I spent ten years of those with the AA/BSM, we had 3000 instructors with 40 pupils each, and each one of those instructors probably had at least one pupil before they were ready for test at all times and should have gone and didn't. We had to deal with those complaints. And I think understanding the cost to an individual, not just that test fee, because you're right, if you take that test fee in isolation, it is a roll of the dice and you think, you know what, it's £60 or £70, even 100 quid, it's something you can sort of go, it's worth a go. But when you then sort of consider, especially with waiting times, that you're going to then have to have two hour lesson every week to keep your standards up to scratch. When you sit down with someone and you actually go through it in there, nine times out of ten people go, hang on a minute, it's not just a little throwaway roll of the dice here. This could cost me a couple of hundred quid, if not thousands, if I get this wrong.

So actually, I think there's bigger educational piece that's required. And I'm not saying that's an easy job by any means. We've not been able to do it in the last 15 years I've been in the industry. So this ready to pass campaign that we just talked about, actually, I think it's starting to go down this road. So cost of living crisis is a tough world out there. If this helps the situation, great. Let's put it to the people. Let's see what we think. Put it to driver instructors, we said about engaging with the right people. We could sit here and the three of us have our opinions. Who knows what the rest of the market feels like. And I don't quite know how we do that, but, yeah, I'd be open to things like that. And I think there are interesting ideas and it's great to hear that there's more people thinking a little bit more outside the box about how to fix this issue. Rather than just say, as we said, or the DVSA's fault, why don't they fix it and why don't they get more examiners? So it's nice to see that we're going in that direction.

Terry: Yeah, I think I've had a little bit of a change of heart on this one because I remember speaking to a friend of the show, Bob Martin, a little while ago about this topic, and I think he was for an increase. It was back when they did increase the price of the test by about 37p or whatever it was at the time. And I think that he put it out there, let's double it, let's triple it. And I think I was a bit with that, not strong with that, but kind of thinking, yeah, let's do it. Let's showcase the importance of this test. But I think I've switched now because I'm seeing, as you said, Richard, the cost of living crisis. More and more people are struggling and they're struggling to pay for lessons as well. And it's like all we're doing really is punishing them by doing it. It's not a deterrent. We're just punishing them.

So what I wouldn't be against is a small increase, to put back into the DVSA to fund examiner recruitment or to fund an increase in wage for examiners to make that job potentially a bit more desirable. So I wouldn't be against an increase, but I think I've gone against the increase, as in like double to try and deter people. Because I don't think it would if I'm being honest, it would just make it harder, as we're doing with everything at the minute. And I'm trying not to be political, but as we're doing with everything, we're making it harder for the lowest earners. And I think that's what we want to avoid. If anything, maybe there's a way to make it easier for those guys. But that's a whole other show. Anything else you want to come back on that with Chris?

Chris: No, the only other thing that sprang to mind was whether it would stop the slots that we see, whether it stops the ones that are going to waste. Because actually I think the problem with those is instructors are saying, no, sorry. People are saying, I'll give it a go. But once they've missed that deadline, they don't get any money back. So they then just think I've lost it. That's it. They don't cancel it and make it available. And I do think that's somewhere that the DVSA could potentially offer some kind of remuneration or even if it was something off the next test, there must be a way to do something because otherwise once you've hit that deadline for the cancellation, you lose all of it, there's no reason for people to cancel, so I think that's the other side of it. But as everyone said, it's really difficult. If we could come up with the right answers, then we'd all be really rich.

Terry: Unfortunately, there's a lot of people out there that swear down they've got the correct answer and everyone else is doing everything wrong. But let's not talk about those people. We are going to talk briefly about the Big Learner Relays. I believe you've got a little bit of news about that, Chris.

Chris: Yeah, it's back. The Big Learner Relay the mad idea by Louise Walsh. I've lost track of how many years ago, it was my head saying 2015, but lockdown is kind of messed with time, isn't it? But, yeah, Louise Walsh sat on her sofa thinking we could do something for children in need, plans to raise a couple of grand, and I think it was £89,000 later, something like that, and she was sat on the sofa in the Queen Vic, talking to Shane Ritchie about what driving instructors are up to.

What amuses me is PDIs that have come through, new instructors that come into the industry who think it's normal that people get together relay around either their local legs or in some cases the whole country, with Louise Walsh sat on the backseat. It's just a daily occurrence and I believe I haven't got official figures, but I believe we've raised over half a million for children in need over the

whole relay from conception till now, not to mention amazing goodwill in the industry. And I claim that the BLR is CPD because I've benefited more professionally from the engagement and interaction with some awesome people than any course I've ever been on. So, yeah, the BLR is back. The route is now officially on the website, so you can go and see that. We're starting out from Aberdeen, taking a trip around to Kilmarnocks, down through to Middlesborough. My geography is rubbish, so I'm checking on the map, but hopefully this means more to other people. It's going down to the southeast, Cambridge, quick trip around my neck of the woods in Kent, through London, nice trip through Wales, which is always some of the favourite bits. They're going to Swansea and it's ending up at Goodwood and I believe all of that is official. It's on the website now, so hopefully I won't get in trouble saying any of that because I'm on the committee, so I've known for a little while.

But, yeah, if anyone hasn't been involved, it is one of the best things about the driving instructor industry. It's great and however you choose to engage, get in touch with the people that are lead cars locally, they will make themselves known, but if not, get in touch with the Big Learner Relay or get in touch with me and I'll put you in touch with them and go and figure out how you can just join along, take a pupil. Pupils that drive on the relay pass first time. The DVSA need to promote this because it's true. It's a genuine fact that the pass rate for pupils that drive on the relay is higher than for pupils that don't. And the DVSA should promote it as part of their recovery scheme. And I'll get on to that one.

Terry: So we just need half a dozen Big Learner Relays now just to get that back on track.

Chris: One a week.

Terry: Also, if that isn't official, you've got about 12 hours to let me know before you get this podcast. Richard, any thoughts on the Big Learner relay?

Richard: No, I love the idea. I've loved it since Lou came up with it many years ago. As Chris said, I can't actually remember the year, but I was at the AA at the time and we actually reached out to Lou, don’t know if she’ll remember this? But we said that we'd support it in terms of trying to get many of our franchisees involved, and we communicated it to our guys and encouraged people to get in touch and be involved. And obviously we continue that with intelligent instructor and communicate everything that needs to be done, trying to help fix those any gaps where there's no instructors around or whatever, which is very rare these days with the size it's gotten to.

I just got this picture in my head now since you've said that, just this constant snake of driving instructors 24/7 days a week, just never stopping. So that's sort of stuck in the back of my head. But now I think it's a brilliant thing. And like Chris said, the amount of money they raised for good causes and things can be nothing but admired. And everyone that talks about it, everyone that comes across it, loves it. You see all the spots on the cars and people love it. So just another great thing that the industry has done that probably a lot of people don't think twice about anymore and just think that it's normal when these things are extraordinary.

Terry: About that quote there that you just said, Richard, when something just resonates with you. “Another great thing industry has done”, it's like we're driving instructors, but it's another great thing the industry has done. And I think that sometimes we forget that we do some really awesome stuff, whether it's a big learner relaly, whether it's raising funds elsewhere where it's just helping people that are struggling to drive and helping each other. And I thought that was quite profound. Another great thing the industry has done.

Richard: I think I've been on with yourself before, Terry, and we've had sort of conversations. I tried to be as positive as I can, and I think through 15 years of the industry, we beat ourselves up a lot. Driving instructors beat ourselves up a lot. We look at the industry and people go, it's a really slow-moving thing and we beat each other up a lot. But actually, when you take a step back, there's so much positivity and so many things come out of this and actually we're involved in even just getting people to pass their driving test. When I take a step back and think about how much freedom and what that enables people to do sometimes think, wow, what an impact you've had on someone's life. And I think sometimes it's good for driving instructors just to take a step back and think, that's incredible what I've done there the impact of positivity and the great impact I've had on people. And that's before we go into things like the big learner relay.

That's what we did the awards a few years ago. It's great to celebrate the good things that we do, not just the bad.

Terry: I need to get your more often to cheer me up. Yeah. The only thing I'm going to mention on the Big Learner Relay is a little bit of an exclusive: There will be some Instructor Podcast involvement this year, so keep your eyes and ears peeled for that.

But before we go any further, let's take a moment to set the table. Let's start with yourself. Chris, do you want to tell us a little bit about you? A little bit about the DITC…

Chris: Yes, I'm Chris Bensted. I am the co-founder of the Driving Instructor and Trainers collective, the DITC, and it's a sign posting platform for the driving instructor industry so that you can find the awesome stuff that we all talk about and more because the industry is notorious for making things difficult to find. My twelve-year-old just got into metal detecting and that's easier than trying to find beneficial things inside the industry sometimes. So, we are the home of the Treasure Hunters Guild for the driving instructors industry.

Terry: Richard, tell us a little bit about yourself and the Intelligent Instructor.

Richard: Yeah, sure. So, my name is Richard Borges and I look after everything Intelligent Instructor, which is basically digital stuff, I work alongside a gentleman called Richard Storrs and we've been running Intelligent Instructor, just the two of us now for a couple of years. Obviously started off as a publishing business where we had the magazines and now, we've moved on to more of a digital focus following COVID, which obviously restricted us from sending printed magazines out and doing that sort of stuff. So, we've had to sort of change our approach. And obviously we now do the Expo, we do a national one, doing more regional one every year at the moment, and of course the Intelligent Instructor awards as well. So, again, much like what Chris said, really, we're just trying to make people aware of the things that are out there and if there are things that we can do to try and support people's journeys as a driving instructor. Then we'll come up with an idea that ticks that box.

Terry: Cool. And for those of you that are listening, for the first time, I am Terry Cook. I'm the host and creator and founder of the Instructor podcast. You can find everything at www.theinstructorpodcast,com.

All the links for these guys and the big learner relay will be in the show notes and on the website. And if you enjoy this and want even more stuff, you can check out the premium content as well. Where for £10 a month, you get a whole host of exclusive discounts and a whole host of awesome content. Go check out the website to find out what, but I'm also going to take a moment for one of a little plug that starting with this episode, every episode that comes out, if you go and check out the blog, after the episode, you will find a couple of things. You'll find the full transcription of the show, which I thought will take about an hour. It takes about six. But you'll find a full transcription of the show. You'll find links for the show, links for stuff in the show. And you will also find a link for my new Notes page. That's basically an individual page where you can make notes on the show.

So, as you're listening, you can make notes for anything that you might want to take going forward. And the individual for the show, you can store them nicely away to refer back to. And yes, I have been asked. So, I'm going to make it clear now that going forward, there will be the Instructor podcast ring binders to keep them in, and we'll add it to the list of things to do.

But today's main topic that we are talking about, which we talked to already, is CPD. It's a very controversial, it's very debated, it's very heated when you see anything discussed around CPD. I'm going to ask you again, Chris, first, what the CPD stands for? What is it?

Chris: There's a few definitions, isn't there? Continuous Professional Development. Continuous Personal Development. But I prefer the professional. It's doing stuff that makes you better. That's it, really. And if you look at other professions, they all do it. And I was having a read on something that said, anybody that's got a profession that is overseen by a professional body will have to do CPD. And then in brackets, except for driving instructors. Why?

At the moment, all we've got that is official is a standards check. That's your CPD, which is find out whether you're not good enough and then try and go and fix it. Makes awesome sense. Yeah, I don't get it. I was really lucky when I came into the driving instructor industry. I met an awesome lady called Lynne Web. Who firstly taught me that there was another way that you could do what we now refer to as coaching stuff. And she introduced me to the associations and the different companies that were offering training and courses. And she came out and sat in the back of my car and told me I was crap. She was very positive about how I could improve a lot. But we've got this sausage machine of introducing people to the industry. I'm yet to meet a PDI that's come through the mainstream channels that get told about associations and ongoing courses. Unless they're the ones with that specific franchise or training organization, they don't look at the bigger world of how we can improve things. So CPD is all of that anything that makes you better?

Terry: Yeah. And I think the interesting thing for me, and this is kind of what sparked up this topic for me for today, was seeing a post on Facebook recently and those of you that listen regularly know that I like to scan to get a feel for the room on social media. And it just struck me because someone asked about CPD, sort of what CPD people do. I can't remember the exact question, but it was like every response was about a training course or going to a presentation, that sort of thing. And I do think there's a bit of a misconception that when someone talks about CPD we feel like we have to go and sit down for 6 hours and be spoken to. But it's so much more than that. I started writing a list of CPD that I partake in and I had to stop because it was too many. But there's:

• seminars
• presentations
• blogs
• books
• podcasts
• one to one training
• magazines
• subscriptions
• courses
• Facebook groups
• webinars

And there's more than that. But there's that much stuff that we can partake in. It's something I'm really passionate about because it's not all about taking money, it's not all about that. Although I'm a big believer in paying for what you get. Maybe we can touch on that in a moment. But you're listening to this podcast, you're taking in development, whether that's listening to it and listening to what we spoke about before, about the big learner relay and you're developing personally because you're thinking actually that's a really good thing I'd like to do some good. Or maybe it's the professional side that now you're seeing all these different areas of CPD where you're going to go and develop. But this podcast is doing that. I mentioned about the notes before. You can make notes while you're doing this. You don't have to use those sheets, you can use a notebook, can use any form of paper you want, but you can go and make notes on all this stuff, and you've got that to return back to. I mean, the podcast is here to stay and you can always return back to them.

So, it's just a really good example of a free CPD resource, but I just see so much reluctance from so many people. But the question I want to ask you, Richard, is as someone that's not a driving instructor, I keep putting that caveat on, but as someone that's not a driving instructor, what sort of CPD do you take to help you or have taken over the years?

Richard: Yeah, I think you spot on. Before I go into what I do personally, I think it's worth mentioning, building on what you've both said there, I completely agree. It's something that makes you better. And one misconception I think there's been in a lot of driving instructors that I've spoken to in the past, is making them a better trainer. So, technical aspects, how can I do this better when I'm teaching someone to drive? And it's always about the skills around being sort of teaching a skill or being a teacher or whatever, but actually it's so much wider than that.

We spoke about wellbeing and things like that, mental health awareness and just things that not necessarily just outside of your day job so far. CPD can go and it has to have some kind of limit. Otherwise, like you said, Terry, you'll just go on and on and on. Before you know it, you'd be listening more things than ever. But I would probably say, just as an action point for your listeners, why don't they do the same as what you've done tonight and just have a think about it, take a step back and say, What CPD have I done? Or what do I think could be classed as that? We spoke about the expo. Come along to an expo for the day. You could listen to eight different speakers and speak to nine different providers about different things, or experts like yourself and Chris. That's all development, that's all things that can tick that box. So I would recommend doing that.

Me, myself, I'm a digital marketer, so I'm really lucky. My job is online. I live and breathe on these laptops constantly. I'm on my phone more hours of the day than most kids, unfortunately. But I'm lucky. There are so many digital assets out there. If I want to go and learn how to do paid search on Google, google has got this great digital garage that you can go off and see. I just log into a news thing every day, which is all about tech and marketing, and it gives you sort of things of other case studies, of what other people have done, what's going on in the industry, that sort of thing, like just reading the news. That's CPD for me. I've developed what I'm doing and I can go into a conversation. I'm not a driver instructor, but I can read something from the DVSA. I can have that briefing on the Ready to Pass campaign that's given me personal development, so that I can sit on a podcast with two expert driving instructors and be involved in that conversation. Whereas if I didn't have that, I don't have no idea what you're talking about, to be honest.

So, I think it's just about understanding how you build as a person. And I think Chris hitting that on the head making you better, not better training, not better driving structure, making you better in every sense of the word.

Terry: I mean, with these podcasts, what's awesome is that I get to talk to people like yourselves. And this is CPD for me. This is my development. I get to pick your brains. I get to learn from you, and other people might listen to it, but I get to actually ask the questions and develop from it. But I don't want to just bang on about this podcast. But I think it's a really good example of, like you were saying, the different types of the different topics doesn't have to all be about ADI specific. I think back to this podcast, we've got topics on physical health and mental health and stress and safeguarding and standard checks and confidence and social media SEO mindfulness. I had someone come in who was like a yoga trainer, and I think it was that episode, Chris, where you text me and said, I don't know how you're going to make this fit into driving instructors, and then afterwards you went, but you have and it's relevant.

I get these people in from other industries and fit it in, and that's how I learned. It's not just from industry specific stuff. I'll go and find these other awesome people.

Richard you're not just bringing in proper Adi specific stuff. It's stuff that's relevant and you go and find other places other people are relevant. You can learn so much from them and taking these other skills. And that takes us away a little bit from this 80s mindset of you getting my car, my rules, shut up and drive sort of thing. And I don't need to learn anything. I've got all the skills I'll ever need and we can develop. And I just think that I really do believe what's the problem in trying to be better and trying to learn and try to develop and not resting on your laurels. But I realize I'm also starting to get a little bit preachy. So, I'm going to step back off my soapbox. So what are some of your favourite forms of development, Chris?

Chris: Yeah, for me, the thing that I feel changed in the industry in the way that CPD was done and I'll put my cards on the table, I think it should have been made mandatory in some way. I think that it might come round again, but I think we missed a trick, and those of us that already do it doesn't affect us. But if we want everybody else to figure it out, then you've got to mandate it. And in life, I'm not really big on regulation and people being told what to do, but I think sometimes when you're wanting that maximum standard, you've got to pull the minimum standard up. But the thing that really sort of changed things and I was heavily involved in was Facebook, and Facebook groups and social media uniting individuals inside of a group. And it was there twenty-four, seven, and it's been the bloody pain of my life ever since.

In a lot of ways, just a quick nod to Kaz my other half, because she's an absolute bloody diamond and she puts up with a lot, and she's an expert on the driving instructor industry because of it. If anyone's looking for someone to employ, take her off my hand. But Facebook, I started the first Facebook group for driving instructors, the dark side, as it's become known. But I'm a driving instructor and I'm on Facebook, and it started with how many instructors can we get in one place? Because we got something in common. And the thing that we all had in common rapidly became clear, which was problems, complaints, issues, and that's where it sat. But what also came off the back of that is where the big learner relay came from. Without Facebook, it wouldn't have happened, it wouldn't have worked, it wouldn't have been what it was. And just to clarify, 2014, and it was £65,000 in the first year, just because I'm on the committee and I should be getting these things right, the big learner relay came from there.

There's loads of companies that have been able to engage with the industry and chat with their customer base in a way that wouldn't have been possible without social media. Do I class social media as CPD. Yes, if you choose to use it in that way. But that doesn't mean that you are sitting on Facebook having a bitch and being a keyboard warrior and all of that stuff. No, that's not CPD. But if you are developing and improving because of something, if you're able to ask a question, admittedly, ten instructors, eleven answers, but if you're able to ask a question to find out where to find the answer, which is my best bit of advice to everybody, don't ask people for an answer. Ask people where you can find it. They'll point you in the correct direction. Potentially intelligent instructor, potentially the DITC, maybe go and listen to a podcast.

So, ask where you can find the answer. I think it was Terry I said it to the other day. But someone said how have I managed to do in my career the things that I've done? I'm better on Google than everybody else where I go and find stuff. I've got a questioning brain, I want to find the answer, I go and look it up. That's CPD. It's not the complaints necessarily, it's the solutions.

Terry: I think the thing around social media there is fascinating. You mentioned Facebook in particular. In the same people you will see say that they will never ever do any form of development are the same people you see asking questions on Facebook, that's literally development. You are literally going into this place that you set up for our industry and saying help me with this problem. And then someone is helping you with that problem. That's almost the exact definition of development. You are developing yourself via that. But again, that goes back to I think what I was saying before about people have this misconception that you have to go to a ten day course to get this development. But as we've discussed it's so much more.

One of the things that I've come to realize recently is that I don't like a lot of presentations. I like being presented to. I don't necessarily want to be involved if I go to a seminar or some presentation or course. I like being spoken. So, I don't want to be actively involved. Up and running around and writing on boards and all that kind of stuff. It's just not for me. And that's not criticizing it. Some people gain more from that. But I'm not someone that learns that way.

So, I'm really having to take a think about what I do going forward because a lot of these courses do that. So, going forward I'm going to be very specific when I look at courses and just be like, okay, what does this entail? Because if it entails that I'm not going on, it not as an ultimatum, but that's just me looking after myself.

So, when you are looking at these courses or anything, dive into it, find out what suits you. There may be one that's got all this interaction that's right up your street, or there may be one that's literally someone speaking to you for 2 hours, which might be perfect. My preference is always stuff that's less engaging, which I realized probably most people don't like. But I like the stuff where I can just sit back and listen, sit back and watch and take it in and make notes and almost just go through that at my own pace after. But I think the other question I wanted to ask you, Chris in particular, is the cofounder of the DITC is if someone knew or whatever came to you and said I want to start on my development journey. I've been in this game 20 years. I've never done anything where shall I start? Where would you point them?

Chris: It gets asked a lot. People do get in touch and they suddenly say I've realized sometimes because of a standards check that I don't get it, that I need to do more, but I want to change things, but I just don't know how. They're my favourite kind of instructor. They're the ones that are willing. What we've got to do is show them a direction that's going to work for them. So, I tend to divide things up. I talk about their driving, and do they want to go and do a practical skill that's going to make them a better driver? Because if so, you can do it for free or for as little as I think it's 25 quid with Rospa, you can go along and do advanced driving qualification. You can work on those practical driving skills which will give you something to go and work with your learners on.

Do you want to develop your theory knowledge, your technical knowledge about what or challenge it even of what's going on? In which case, when was the last time you read the Highway Code? Start there because people don't revisit it. Or do you want to work on your business? Do you want to go and figure out something to do with websites or social media? And as Richard touched on it used to be in particular it side of things, you had to go and do a qualification. It would likely have Microsoft attached to it or something like that and cost you an arm and a leg. Now we've got these little accessible courses where you go, all right, I need to be able to do this today. And it's a bit like Neo in the matrix. You plug it in the back of your head, you sit and do the short course and then you're an expert on it and you can go on and you've got enough. But especially if you have to go to someone who's got to pay for it for you, that makes it affordable. We're in an even better situation, we've got to pay for it ourselves. But it's tax deductible, so we should acknowledge that. My advice is work out your tax liability and see if you can invest it in something that's going to stop the tax man getting it because you will benefit tenfold from that.

So, it's figuring out what's going to suit that person and it's not necessarily what's your weakest point. Because if you're trying to get into doing CPD and development, doing something you're not good at is not always the way forwards. Sometimes find what you enjoy most and go and tackle that and potentially chat with your pupils and see if they can help you figure out what you should go and develop. What are you good at?

Terry: I think that is the perfect answer for eleven months of the year. However, this show is going out on the 31 August. So, for one month, I think there's an even better answer to that, which is send them to the Expo. Because there you're going to get to spend a full day wandering around seeing all these awesome people. You get to pick and choose what you want to do and then where you want to go, as if by math, you could go an export expert right here. And my first question for you about the export, Richard, and I'll keep in mind whose podcast you're on. What are you most excited about this year at

the expo?

Richard: Well, there's a rumour that there's going to be a special recording of a certain podcast happening on the day, so I'll let you give a little bit more detail on that.. The DIPOD guys will be there, of course, but we just think we're really thankful to Terry for getting involved. We love to have the idea of a podcast being recorded on the day and the fact that it's a big number for you is a fantastic thing. So I think that's going to be a really special session, actually.

We've always had lots of good speakers. This is something that we've never done before, so, yeah, that is something that I think would be really good in terms of CPD, actually. One thing I wanted to jump in, and this sounds very convenient, but one of the best ways I actually learn is by speaking to people face to face. I'm not really a person who can sit in the crowd and sit in the fifth row in the corner and just nod my head and write my notes. I need to engage with people face to face and I need that conversation and then that's what gives me ideas. They'll talk and something in my head and I'll then snowball in my head with that whilst I'm still trying to talk to people and run off my brains over here, but my face is here sort of thing. So that's one of the best ways I do it. And I think driving instructors in particular the last few years, have been really good at starting to understand how their learners learn. So, most people, this one likes to do it and we use these cards, this one likes an app, this one likes little bottles of toy cars to show them how to do manoeuvres or whatever. I'd love to know how many driving instructors have done that themselves, how best do I develop? And I think that number would be really small, actually. I think they're very good at doing it outwards to learners and pupils. They're doing it inwards themselves to say.

Actually. Like you said. Rather than spreading myself too thin or going on these courses and getting very little out of it because it's just not your cup of tea. Going out there and thinking. Right. I've got a brief for myself. Which is to go and find this. Which is either an engaging session or a presentation or face to face session. Or whatever it might be. We run Virtual Masterclasses and actually, funny enough, another plug here. We've got our very own Chris Bensted joining us for one in September, which is all about helping your learners through the theory task. Again, probably something that a lot of drive instructors just haven't even given much thought to. But we know there's a lot of instructors that do get involved in that process and instructors should be more aware of that. So, I think it's up to, like I said, each individual, but the expert itself is set to be our biggest and best yet. Which is great news, I think.

Terry: Just touching back on what you said then about the engagement, I thought that was interesting because it's almost the opposite to what I was saying, how I learned. And again, that just shows that different people are in different ways. But I think looking at the Expo, I think that's an excellent example because you could go and easily catch six to eight presentations, 20 minutes presentations, get ample knowledge and ideas from that, but you might come away from those eight presentations with three names written down. I'm like, I'm going to come back to these. And it's like these are where I'm going to go and invest my time and money, because that's where I want to develop. And again, little plug to my own podcast here. That's what this podcast is great for. And so many people do it that they'll listen to 20 episodes, and from those 20 they'll learn plenty, but there will be one that resonates, and they go, I'm going to find out more from that guy. But I think that's a brilliant way to do it. Go and get this stuff for free as much as you can and then find the person you want to invest in. But coming back to the Expo, Richard, are we going to get 1000 this year? Are we going to do 1000 through the doors?

Richard: Yeah, I mean, I would love that, I have to say. It's something that we've always had. We haven't got an office, but if we had one, it'll be on a big piece of paper with a big love heart around it and we'd be pushing for it every single time. I think it's been a real tough time with the Expo, I have to say. We launched it 2019. I think it was the first year we were a bit unsure what to expect because we'd never done one before. Then COVID came along and sort of scuppered plans and then I think the first time we came back, we had still Covid, obviously, as a potential issue. And the fuel crisis was at the time, I believe as well. Last year was literally that whole week, the whole press was fuel crisis and that almost seems nothing compared to what it is now, but there we are. So, there's always something to sort of put a bit of a downer on things.

But it's so nice that every year we see different people walk through the door. Of course, there's going to be 250 people. I could probably write down their names and take pictures of them now and show you exactly who's going to be there. But the good thing for me was every time we've done an expo, there's always a couple of hundred people there that I've never seen before. And I think that's a really positive thing actually, because we don't want it to just be the same people that turn up because then even the people that do come every year, which of course we welcome as much as the new people, having different people refreshes that show and gives you new people to talk to, new faces. And you say about presentations, I've signed in a few myself and I'll sit down and just before the speaker is speaking, you sat next to someone who's got something in common with a driver instructor in the same industry. I'm not a driver instructor, but we work in the same field. So just saying hello and just having a chat and getting to know people, I think that's a fantastic thing. Yeah.

Terry: So, you mentioned before about the instructor podcast being recorded live. There is a 100th episode overall, so it's pretty special for me and I appreciate you giving me that opportunity. We'll be announcing over the next few days who their guest is going to be, but I'm really looking forward to that. It does excite me quite a lot and I appreciate that is going to be your favourite thing on the day, clearly, but what else have you got installed? What else can you tell us is going on down there?

Richard: Well, I think the big thing that most people are going to be looking forward to is obviously there's a session with the DVSA. We touched on the DVSA a little bit today on this podcast and we're delighted that Loveday is committed to coming along again and we'll be doing and not only an update from the industry, but also a bit of a Q and A as well. We'll try and get as many questions in advance and we're always cautious that we want to control that session. Really pleased to have her along and should be joined by big training. We really got training as a focus for us this year and Lynne, Ray Lou's coming along, so there's going to be some of the big heavy hitters in terms of expert traders. They're going to be able to give people a real steer on things like standards checks.

Terry: So, it sounds like there's some pretty awesome stuff going on there and I was down there last year and I very much enjoyed that. I did the special episode on it where I spoke to quite a few different people and if you're listening, Loveday, I will be trying to grab a few minutes with you at some point. Please do not run the other way. But yes, I'm going to be recording now. Hopefully I'll grab a few other people and I would say that how can I phrase this, it's probably worth going just to see the T shirt I'm going to be wearing alone and I'll just leave that hanging there. Okay, Chris, so obviously Richard is going to be a fan of the Expo. He runs it on the spot. Now, are you a fan of the Expo? And if so, why should people go to it.

Chris: Professionally? Absolutely. Personally, I don't like people. I'd share this because firstly, a lot of people don't believe it because often if there's a group of instructors, I'm likely to be involved. But I think there's a lot of people that don't go because they're worried about the social bit or just the crowds. I hate all that stuff. I think FOMO does it more than anything else that I feel that if I'm not going to be there, I won't know what I've missed.

I think everybody should go, go and see where they are for you. What I've loved and the change that I've seen is when I first started and it was very much an association conference. You'd go along and different associations did it differently. But pretty much you sat down. Got lectured to about stuff and there might be a few trade stands. The development towards more of an Expo approach and the change there where you can suck it and see and go around and have a chat with different people. The increase in PDIs that are finding these events and newly qualified instructors, I think there's a real issue for experienced instructors, those that have been doing it for years. These PDIs are coming through with really strong training in coaching, client centered learning, modern approaches, mindfulness. All of those things that Terry has people talking about on the podcast, they're getting that at the grassroots. They're coming in with that understanding. There's some catching up to do for people who trained 15 - 20 years ago and it wasn't a thing.

So, these are the events to come along to, to go and get a taste of what's out there, to see whether you are missing something. And it's not as Richard said, it's not the faces it used to be. I knew everyone in the room. I'm really bad with names, so I normally have someone stood next to me to whisper names in my ear like the celebrities do, because I genuinely struggle. So, if you ever meet me, just introduce yourself and assume we've never met before. Yeah, I love it when people do that because I connect you with your Facebook profile. But the people in the room, you knew who was going to be there. It was very rare to find someone you didn't know. Now I still know probably 25% of people coming around and I get people that come up that I've chatted to online and never met in person. But there are people that I've never heard of, never come across in the industry who are really engaging, incredibly knowledgeable and I love it.

It's a massive leap forward and I think we've got that change in approach to things. We've got the Expo to think, we've got the associations that are engaging with the Expo. They could have all turned around and said, it's not my ball, I don't want to play with it. And I don't think any of them have Richard put him on the spot and see if any of them no, absolutely.

Richard: I think obviously we've worked with the ADINJC in particular really closely with all of our conferences, but anyone that's been along to the last few so for example, DIA, we're at the site, one in Kempton, the last one we did, MSA, likewise, we're keen for everybody to be involved. There is no locked doors as you say. The more people there to engage with the industry, the better. And let's not beat around the bush. These guys have got a huge contact list, so if they can get hold of their members and say, come on, come along to the Expo, then it's great for us and we'll be even closer to that dream number of 1000 people through the door.

And I think one thing I want to mention actually is, and Chris touched on this when we say that there's 1000 people that sometimes can be a bit scary and people can think, well this is going to be like this huge rush of people and touchwood, so far it's never felt like that. It's never felt like it's been an overcrowded event. It's never felt like people are on top of each other. It's never felt like a situation where people couldn't get in a speaker room because it's too full or whatever else. It gets very busy for the DVSA briefing, that's probably the biggest one because everyone's going to flock to that. But you don't have to go to that if you don't want to. The whole point about the Expo is choice. If you want to go and sit, listen to a specific speaker, great. If you don't, no problem. You can go. Another one to run the trade stands. If you want to go and speak to the guys who've run electric vehicles, these guys turn up. We didn't give them anything. They turn up just because they're really passionate about driving electric vehicles and think this is the future and that you guys should be doing it as well. They literally take the day out, drive there, sit there all day. We might feed them a sandwich every now and then just to keep them smiling. But in general, they're doing it out of the goodness of the industry to try and help people understand how this is something that they can use for their own business. And things like that are perfect for this Expo.

And another reason to get you to go along, one thing that we're trying to do new this year is more about health and wellbeing. So, the original idea concept we had when we first sat down talking about the Expo was we wanted it to be an MOT for three things an MOT for the business in terms of you being a driver instructor an MOT for your car. So, the dream for us was we do work with KwickFit Michelin. The dream was that whilst you're there, you can get your car checked over and hopefully somewhere down the line that's going to happen. And the other thing that we've never really cracked was for yourself an MOT for you as a person. And we get that a little bit with mindfulness and we've got people speaking about how to deal with certain things and situations as a person. But we're starting cars most of the time as driver instructors. And I say we, the royal we, not me. But bad backs are common, are people eating healthily, we're just waiting on confirmation. And who knows, by the time you've edited this, Terry, you might be able to put a little caveat on this, but we're trying to get some blood pressure tests to come along, like diabetes checks and things. And again, you don't have to do it. These are all just there as optional things just to keep you involved and make sure that you come away from the day happy, you've got some good stuff for your business, you feel a little bit better about yourself. And I think you can speak for 99% of people that walk out of the Expo feeling saying that they feel quite actually almost revitalized and really engaged with the industry. Most of the time people are walking out with a smile, which is the good thing.

Terry: Yeah, I think this is episode 97, possibly 96 overall, the instructor podcast, and I think pretty certain this is the first time anyone has ever used the phrase “royal we” before. So that's the first. But I think you made some really good points and I want to touch on them because I'm going to tell you a secret and I'm going to tell you an exclusive.

So, the secret, because you were speaking then about lots of people being in there and how that can be intimidating. I suffer quite heavily or have suffered quite heavily with anxiety. Also, a little bit of claustrophobia and as Chris said, generally don't like people. So last year it was quite daunting for me to go down and it was my first time at any sort of event. And I at that time in particular knew very few instructors. We got about half way through and I could feel myself starting to get very tense and whatnot, but there's a lovely field and a lovely lake just behind and I went for a little walk around that had a chat with some swans for a bit and then come back and ready to go. And it isn't particularly overwhelming. Like you say, you've got a lot to choose from and it's in a beautiful area, so if you get a bit stressed, you can go for a walk, you can say hello to the swans, do what you want. So yeah, that's now for the exclusive and I don't even think I've told you we get this rich, so I suppose you could overrule me on this, but there will be a competition for the Expo and the prize will be a year subscription, a free year subscription to the instructor podcast premium. Now this applies to my current members, and it applies to anyone that wants to join up new. So, if at the Expo you come and have a selfie taken with me and you post it on social media and tag in the instructor podcast so I can go and find it within the next week or so? I will do some kind of draw and whoever gets picked will win a year's subscription to the instructor podcast Premium. So, as I say, if you could still sign up now and you could still get that at the time because it's for new and existing customers, that is that I think it's also relevant because we haven't done it so far to mention the date, which is the 2 October. What time does it kick off?

Richard: Kick off? At the moment we're just sort of debating, but we typically kick off about 09:30.

Terry: Cool. Is there anything else you'd like to mention on the export, Richard?

Richard: No, just like I said, obviously thanks to you guys for supporting us and thanks to everyone that's come along so far. Without the people and the driving instructors there on the day, the event really wouldn't be what it is so far. And it's gone from strength to strength. We've seen people return, new people show up and if we can get anywhere near that 1000 people this year, we'll be absolutely buzzing. But we never stand on our laurels, we always try and develop the Expo. If you've been before, you will still see things that you've not seen before. And that's the whole point really is keeping it fresh, making sure that we appreciate people are taking a day out of their world right now. And actually, in a time when we spoke about cost of living and whatever else where we know you can be out there earning money from driving license, we need to make sure that if you're taking a day out that it's well worth your while and that's our job. And if we don't do that, we want to hear what you want to see instead, if that makes sense. So, yeah, we're all looking forward to it and all set to be a great event.

Terry: Yeah, makes total sense. And I think the thing I would throw in there is you think about the fact that Loveday riders go in again and she was there last year. If that was an event where 50 people were turned up, Loveday Ridr doesn't go. And it's that sort of thing where the more people that go, the more you can then sell it to other people to then come and present to you. Not going to say better quality, that's the wrong term, but a different quality, a different calibre of business and industry is coming in. So, yes, the more people that go, the better. And I for one, will be championing it for the next month or so. Chris, anything else you want to touch on the Expo?

Chris: No, I look forward to seeing lots of people there and seeing what's new. It's great. And also seeing the people that you start to build relationships with that are not driving instructors. People don't have to have a green badge for you to have a chat with them about the job. There's some awesome insight from those that don't. And the only other thing that sort of stood out to me because one of my other hats that's outside of the industry is I do business coaching with a number of different businesses, different sectors. If you don't know what to do and where to start, go along to the expo, grab as many business cards, leaflets or QR codes as you can, and then book a session with someone they don't have to know about. Book a session with a coach of some kind to just kind of put your life in order a bit and figure out what's right for you. And all the things that we've mentioned are things that are ringing bells from my other hat. Sit down with someone who can help you put it in shape. If you can't find anyone, give me a shout because I'll happily do it. But I think an hour of your time with someone to help you make a plan for the next year or even next month would be a worthwhile investment.

Terry: The last thing I'm going to say just before we wrap up, and I will give you both chance to come back on this if you want to, is just about finances a little bit in the sense of we've spent a lot of time talking about personal and professional development on this episode and all three of us run different paid services. And I'm a big believer in paying for what you use. I really do believe that. There's a podcast, I listen to my favourite podcast ever, the Evolution of Horror. They run a Patreon, a premium subscription, which I pay ten pound a month for. I don't listen to a lot of that because I don't have time. But the amount of enjoyment I get from their regular podcast, I'm just paying for that mainly. So, I'm a big believer in that. However, we are going through a cost-of-living crisis. So, what I would be suggesting to people personally is just to take that step back, really look at what you can get for free, so you can get things from the DITC for free. You're obviously getting this for free. The Expo is free. Intelligent Instructor generally is free. Then get all this stuff for free, and then really spend some time considering what you actually want to invest in, what's going to give you the most. And just as one tip, I think my math is right here, but you can get the Intelligent Instructor plus,  a DITC membership, and the instructor podcast premium for less than 25 quid a month.

I think if you went for those three, I think you're doing all right there. So, yeah, I think that just take some time to really invest in the free stuff because there's some quality free stuff out there. Utilize it, see what's right for you, and then look at what you can afford and really dive into it. Anything you want to touch on with that, Richard?

Richard: No, I think you summarize that really well. I think, as you say, have a look at what's out there. Try things for free. Don't let budgets hold you back. In terms of thinking that I can't even start on this personal development journey because there are lots of resources that you don't need to invest in. And then once you find something you're really passionate about, you really like, and you think you're going to enjoy and get something out of, then understand. What budget do I have for this? What can I set aside? And like I said, in business, you have to set aside a budget sometimes and say, this month we're going to make this, next year we're going to do this, or whatever and have a little bit of money. They say, this is just for me. This is for me to invest back into myself. And Chris will be the best man in this room for sure, to talk about that, but I think you summarized it really well.

Chris: When you have got memberships, make sure that you look at what the savings are and the benefits are that you get with it. We've all done the bank account where you get XYZ as benefits and never made use of it. If you've got DIA membership, then check out what the DIA offer you as part of that membership, because you might be able to save a few quid somewhere.

To mention our own DITC members can qualify as long as they've got an Adi badge or they pass their Part One if they're a PDI onwards, they qualify for student discount cards, which is worth its weight in gold. And it probably actually is. That's probably a factually correct thing, but it's the number of people that are members that haven't got the student card. I just had a week away in the Isle of White with Kaz and the kids, and we saved going out for food. We saved on entry into different activities and events and things, just because we've got student cards. So, yeah, make sure you're making use of what you pay for. Don't pay for it if you're not going to make use of it. We'd all rather you invested it somewhere else. The other day, someone said, I've got enough money for either the DITC or for the instructor podcast. I said, we'll go on to the instructor podcast, pay for that, then check out the DITC. And if you can't break even with the student card, then don't worry if you can, it makes it free. It's only £6 a month. So look at things sensibly. No one's asking you to pay money you haven't got. What we're saying is you might be able to find some cash that you could invest in something else.

Terry: So considering Chris took that as an invite to go completely down the plug rabbit hole, Richard, do you just tell people what they can get from the instructor at the Intelligent Instructor Plus?

Richard: Yeah. So, Intelligent Instructor, we've been running a membership scheme for a very long time, actually, and it used to be circling around the magazine and we used to deliver that magazine to your doorstep so that you didn't have to rely on getting one in the post. Obviously, like I said, that doesn't actually exist anymore. So what I've been trying to do with intelligence structure is, much like Chris said, actually, almost try and make it so that the money you pay, you're saving in other ways, in other places. So one of the things we give out is our sister company, First Car, have a lot of magazines. So we developed the Young Driver's Guide, which is like an all encompassing 116 page magazine that goes to learners. And that's sort of all about your theory. Test your learning journey, getting your car, everything like that, which can save you a huge amount of money in terms of some of the advice in there. And then you also got Parents Guide, so that goes to the parents and that explains to them why it costs what it does to learn to drive now and why it doesn't just take 4 hours like it did in 1972 or whatever. So again, not necessarily monetary value, but can benefit you hugely in terms of dealing with learning as pupils, parents and actually understanding why you're teaching them in a specific way and then obviously discounts on specific products that come from time to time and our Masterclasses. So for example, you can come and join Chris on a Master class in September. That normally set you back 36 quid, which like Chris said, tax deductible of course, but if you're an Iplus member it will only be 24. So if you take one every quarter, then you're actually getting your IO plus membership for free because you're saving £12 on the Masterclass every time. So it's all about making sure that, yes, you have to invest a little bit of money, but if you can get that back in another way, then it actually works out cost neutral at worst, I would say.

Terry: Awesome. And while we're taking the opportunity, they showed the podcast Premium has a wealth of content. There are currently nearly 60 exclusive shows over there, including the most recent one with Emma Cottington where she joined me for the 7th episode of the Standard Check Checklist. And I was going to say surprise me. It didn't surprise me, but it was very interesting. She took me down some roads I didn't think I would go down. Shedding some very new light on some topics that I haven't come across before on the Standard Checklist series and there's about 6 hours worth of stuff on that Standard Check and we're only on the 7th competency, so that's pretty awesome.

But again, there are almost 60 shows over there with at the minute, there's five being added every month, including being better with Bob Marton, San Harper's, Adi Mindfulness and Robin Bates Adi. Growth. Audience growth. Podcast. The last one of those by the way, we recorded is an absolute stonker. It's out next month, it's out in September, but we are talking about how you can grow your audience with out of the box thinking and that was amazing.

But there is also stuff by me alone like alternative routes where I give you ways you can develop your driving school without doing it, the normal, well trodden 80s way. And the last thing I'll mention while we're talking about discounts. If you sign up for the instructor podcast Premium for £10 a month. You will get a 33% discount off of Bob Morton's Client Learning. You will get a 16% discount off GoRoadie subscription. You will get a 10% discount off San Harper's Mindfulness courses. You will get a 50% discount off of anything that ADI/PDI has to offer. And the latest one is you'll get a 25% discount off of a subscription with the coaching for geeks Turbo.

So, you have plenty of content and plenty of discounts over there as well. As I said, you can get the DITC, the Intelligent Instructor Plus and the Instructor Podcast Premium for less than £25 a month. So if you are looking to spend a little bit less maybe than some places may offer, but still get a whole heap of quality, I think you could not go far wrong with those. But gentlemen, it has been a wonderful episode. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I love talking CPD, one of my favourite topics. So, thank you for joining me.

Richard: Richard, thank you very much for having me. Cheers.

Check out the DITC here and Intelligent Instructor here. 

You can find out more about the Big Learner Relay here. 

Download the notes PDF here.